Help Pleeeaaaaaaase

[dawna]

Hey Everyone,

So we need some help here. Our dogs have brought us to our wits end and unless we can fix their problem behaviour we may have to find another home for them (I can't usually finish that thought without wanting to cry, so this is not my first decision). These are the sweetest most perfect dogs...when we are home. They seem to need alot of human contact, and unfortunately our schedules just do not allow for perhaps what they need.

Anyways here's the deal. Our dogs destroy things when we are gone. We are aware that they may have separation anxiety however we have not had an expert opinion as we don't really have a vet who speaks English.

So here is what we have done. We have tried tiring them out before work (we walk them 3 times a day AT LEAST). We give them lots of toys. We bought them kong toys and stuff them. We bought detterent spray. We are crate training them. We have left at random times of the day so that our schedule is unpredictable.

We have done all these things but we cannot trust the dogs in our apartment alone. They have chewed up the floors, couches, their crates, the walls, and most recently our air conditioner. We crate them during the day, but sometimes we are just gone too long and leave them on the balcony with a pee pad (this is when they destroyed our air conditioner). What else can we do?

We are leaving for Canada in 3 months however we are renting a friends place and we cannot bring dogs in who could potentially destroy something in their place. They are doing us a favour.

We just do not know what to do. We are thinking now that we just cannot give them what they need, time wise. If this is true then we need to face reality, but we are still trying to figure this out because we do love these dogs.

If anyone has any advice we would love to hear it. Like I said, they are such obedient, well behaved and loving dogs when we are around, but it is just when they are left alone that there are problems. I just need to sort out if this behaviour can be modified or if it is just a bad match for the dogs personalities and our schedules.

Thanks for any advice you might give!

[Karen]

Hi dawna,

It sounds like you're going through a really rough time :( I feel really sorry for you, it's frustrating. I know a bit from experience with Sunny:
http://i30.tinypic.com/2e5v1uc.jpg

What we ended up doing is clearing pretty much EVERYTHING out of the balcony (newspapers, blankets, plastic anything) except toys and the crate (she never chewed the crate but if she had we would have removed that, too). Sunny would also paw at the balcony window until her paws were bleeding :( Once I got her to accept being in the crate, the destruction stopped and she became much calmer about departures. Keep up the crate training, it's well worth it.

Your case might be different because your dogs are young. I'm guessing one or both of them are at the teething stage? One good thing is that that stage doesn't last forever so the need to chew this much should subside!

I found an article about destructive behaviour in puppies that sounds really helpful: http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?cls=2&cat=1551&articleid=164

It sounds like you're doing a lot of things right: giving exercise, appropriate things to chew, crate training... But one thing that might be missing if you're gone a lot of the time is being able to correct your dogs as soon as they make a mistake. Otherwise they just aren't going to learn what is and is not appropriate to chew on.

One temporary solution you might want to consider is boarding them during the day (or if it's just one of the two causing the problems, board just the one). Day-boarding is usually cheaper than overnight, and might be cheaper in the long run than re-purchasing all the destroyed items. Boarding doesn't fix the actual problem, though. I think only training can fix that.

When you're at home with them do they try to chew the sofa or inappropriate things? If so, how do you correct them? Do you make it CRYSTAL clear what they are not allowed to get their teeth on? They might not even know they are doing something bad.

[dawna]

Hey,

Thanks for taking the time to respond!

As for the chewing, like I said they are the perfect dogs when we are here. We have only caught each dog once for chewing and as soon as we saw it, we made a very low voice with a firm no. What we forgot to do however was to place a good toy in their mouth as reinforcement bah. But ya, they just don't do it when we are around. What I forgot to mention was that they do not chew their bones when we are gone, but when we are home they don't stop chewing them!

Also the balcony thing is good (minus the air conditioner) however when we get to Canada we won't have the luxury of a balcony. Where can we put them then?

Also putting them somewhere during the day would be great, but especially in Canada we cannot afford that. We are a young couple with not very much money.

Thank you for the attached article.

[Scarlet13]

You could buy an indoor dog run or a doggie play pen. You can find them online. You can find them with metal frames so you would be able to isolate the dogs without having to crate them, and it would save your apartment.

[pukka]

They sell them in Korea too for not much money, I placed a picture but
I don't remember at which thread. It is like a cage but is much bigger
though don't get the one without ''roof'' most dogs can still jump out of it.
So a play run might not work but a very big sized cage will do.
It is about 46.000won and worth the money for your last 3months of stay.
They deliver in a day.
Search for a Canadian online shop I would say and see if you can order before
you get there.

[annie]

Will you have a yard in Canada?

[dawna]

Hey Annie,

I am not sure if the yard is fenced in at the place we are staying at. Even still, the landlord loves her garden at that house and so I wouldn't want to leave the dogs unattended in the yard. I am hoping that there are some dog parks nearby however, ones where I won't have to chase the dogs with fish and chicken bones in their mouths :)

[Karen]

Hi Dawna,

How it's going with the training? Any improvements? I hope so!

I noticed in your pet sitter post (http://www.animalrescuekorea.org/forums/showthread.php?t=678) that you mentioned how long you keep the dogs in their crates. 10 hours is a really really long time for any dog to stay in a crate, even overnight, but young dogs especially. If you crate them that long every day, I'd expect more behaviour issues to develop. I'm no expert by far, and I don't mean to sound critical, but maybe your dogs need to burn off more energy, get more attention, and not be contained so long.

We chose the balcony strategy for Sunny because she had heartworm disease and was not allowed to exercise for 3 months. She hated the crate so much at first that really, when we started to train, it began with 5 minutes at a time. Only after a month we built it up to 30 minutes, and after that mark it was OK to leave for a few hours (max 4-5).

The problem with leaving dogs in there for really extended periods of time is that they will learn to hate the crate and resist it. If they start to bark, then you've got neighbour issues. The ideal is that they will think of their crates as cozy dens and will voluntarily go in there to relax. 10 hours sounds kind of like prison.

Again, sorry if my message sounds critical, I'm just a worrier by nature :o

[Ryan]

Karen is right, but it also depends on the dog. Many dogs you have to exercise regularly, and not confine for too long. Some dogs, luckily my pup Winnie is in this category, love their crates. I have trained her to enter whenever I say "crate", and will stay in there as long as I want her to (sometimes 8 or 9 hours also, but I try to make the limit 8 hours. She just relaxes and sleeps. I make it a point however, as soon as they come out of the crate, they HAVE to go outside for a good walk and pee, to burn off a lot of energy. The key is to make sure you stay out for at least 30 minutes if you confine them that long. They will then learn that if they are good in their little den, they get extra fun time at home. :)

[Ryan]

p.s. if you need help/advice on some proper crate training techniques, let me know. :)

[dawna]

Hey,

Well in response to your post Karen, I know ten hours seems long. When we work we are gone for 9 hours, and there have been times where something has held us up that little bit longer to make it 10. We don't like doing it, but trust me, we tried everything and well the crate was our last hope. It seems to be working fine too. Ryan, your previous advice really helped us out and so we have successfully crate trained them. They sleep in them at night willingly (we leave the door open) and we have taught them to enter their crate upon command (well we are still working on it from a far distance). The last time we left our dogs on our balcony they completely destroyed our air conditioner. That was our last straw, we just can't trust them around anything. It could be a mix of separation anxiety with boredom, but I just don't know. However, they seem to be doing really well in their crates: they don't whine when we leave, and we can't hear it outside from the door, so that is a good sign right? We made sure to go through all the steps with crating and there is a definite positive association with it.

Now that we are crating them we are making sure they go for good runs once a day in addition to their 3-4 times a day walks. We are doing our best in our not so dog friendly area to get them the exercise they need. I think we are doing quite well actually.

So yes, maybe our method is not ideal, but we don't have many other choices. We spend time with them when we are home, we walk them enough times in the day, and we try to get them the exercise they need. When we go home to Canada we won't have the balcony luxury then and so we were just trying to plan ahead. We are hoping that our schedules won't be exactly the same when we go back, so that the period we are away isn't so long.

[Karen]

They sleep in them at night willingly (we leave the door open) and we have taught them to enter their crate upon command (well we are still working on it from a far distance)...

they don't whine when we leave, and we can't hear it outside from the door, so that is a good sign right? We made sure to go through all the steps with crating and there is a definite positive association with it.

That's great! I'm glad to hear they like their crates, them going in voluntarily is the best you can hope for! Sorry again for the negative tone of my previous message. It sounds like you have put in tons of work and patience for the pooches.

I was spoiled by my last job in Korea with ridiculously low hours, but did suffer through a stretch of 9/10+ hour days when I first moved there, I don't envy your situation :( I hope you guys will score some much-deserved awesome schedules back in Canada.

Anyway, glad to hear you've found a system that's working for the dogs.

[dawna]

Thanks Karen,

I know you were just being concerned, and it is good that you keep updated on everyone's situations. But yes you are right, we have put SO much energy into these dogs, and well since we have started crate training things have been going the best since we have got them. I also hope we get better schedules becuase even though it works, I REALLY do not like keeping them in a cage.

Anyways thanks for the reply:)