Dogs become un-houstrained?

[dawna]

Hey,

So I am looking for some advice on housetraining issues. We have a bit of a unique situation, so I will give all of the background information first and then hopefully someone out there can help!

We have 2 dogs that we adopted at the same time. One was 8 months old when we adopted her and was pee pad/house trained. The other was only 3 months and we pee pad trained him.
Ideally we would have loved to house train them to only go outside however with Lincoln just being a puppy, and us working for 9 hours a day we had to submit to the pee pad. Now here is the problem, which probably seems very obvious: Our dogs have gotten used to the pee pad and now think it is ok to go to the washroom inside.

We live on the 18th floor of an apartment and our elevator takes years to reach us. Also we work for long hours each day and so it is hard for us to be there to see any accidents. We walk them in the morning when we get up, before we go to work, and when we get home, but alas it seems as if lately there have been more and more accidents happening (usually right next to the pad). We are moving home to a place with carpet and we cannot have this happen.

My question is, should we take away the pee pads completely and just deal with the pee on the floor until it stops? (if it stops). Our dogs are now 1 year and 7 months old respectively. It seems as if the younger one needs to pee every 2 hours but that might be because he is allowed to do it. If anyone could give us some direction on how to wean them off the pee pads I would greatly appreciate it!

Thanks so much!

Dawna

[Ryan]

To answer your question, yes. You should take away the pee-pad. However, since they aren't housetrained (outside trained), I would recommend crate training them. until they are completely trained, they should never be roaming your house free while you are gone, or not able to watch at all times. I have posted on here regarding crate training before on a different training post, and I would suggest looking at that. Also, I will give you a good link regarding housetraining in cases like this. It relates more to puppies, but it's the same principle. Basically anytime after eating, exercise, and sleeping, they need to go outside, and do not bring them back in until they have went to the bathroom, no matter how long it takes. Praise should always be given. Never scold them for going in the house unless you catch them in the act, and never shove their nose in it, or hit them. Firm "no" commands do the trick, in a loud low voice, along with immediately taking it outside. Let the dog hear that you are really upset with it. He wants to please, it is natural for dogs, so when they go outside, give lots of praise. Here is the link. Good luck.

R


http://leerburg.com/housebrk.htm

[dawna]

Hey,

Thank you so much for the reply, and I skimmed over the website that you gave and it looks really good. We have actually just ordered crates for our dogs so hopefully we can start this process soon.

I just have one more question though. Is it healthy to crate a dog during the night AND during the day when we are gone? Like I said we are gone for 9 hours a day. I know providing a lot of exercise might be the key, but this is where things get difficult. There are no parks nearby us that we can let our dogs off the leash with, and I have noticed that our dogs need to run around quite a bit to actually get tired. So I fear that by containing them for so many hours, they won't get the exercise they need.

Anyways I think the methods sound good and we hope to begin training soon, but I am just a little worried about crating them for long periods of time.

[Ryan]

hey. As for the time frame, the dogs will be fine. Dogs sleep on an average of 16-18 hours a day, so it will be fine. You can always take them for longer walks, and the more often you do the better. Don't worry. Even if they whine a little, it will lapse, and usually they will just sleep. Hope this helps.

[jonomo]

I have a similar problem.. office work in korea can be demanding and my wife and I sometimes work 12 hours a day... but our doggy is pretty good.. a decent morning walk will take care of his needs for the whole day... and a walk as soon as I get home is usually enough (if I get home on time).. but he usually has 1 more trip to the bathroom in middle of the night... so we have a pad in our bathroom... but for some reason, 1 out of 4 times, he'll miss the pad... pee right on the edge... he just puts his paws and head over the pad... and pees away... hehe... can't really punish him for that right? I'm afraid I'll just confuse him more.... with that being said.. should I crate him at night? I'll need to go out and get a crate....

[Ryan]

As for a crate, the purpose of crate training is to train dogs. If your dog is trained to not make messes in the apartment, then there is no need to crate him at night. Although I am against the use of pee pads in the house (many times it allows the dog to think that going to the bathroom inside buildings is ok), it seems like your pooch has a normal schedule that he knows about, so there is no problem there. My dogs, and everyone I have fostered, have been trained to use the bathroom exclusively outside. I never have had a pad out. For most dogs, minus the very small breeds, they can easily hold their wee until the morning, and my pooches know that the first thing in the morning for me is a trip outside with them. This can also be helped by regulating their water in the evening hours. Two or so hours before bed, take the water away from them. That will add a few extra hours on to their "having to go" time. Many people will say that dogs should always have water, but it isn't that big of a deal in this case. If the body needs water (in all animals, including humans), and there is no water available, by not going to the bathroom, the body is conditioned to recycle the water in the bladder (this is a good trick to remember if you are ever stranded anywhere without water, and are getting dehydrated. Just don't pee and your body recycles. hee hee)

Anyway, I am rambling. I hope this helps, and best of luck.

R

[pukka]

I find the pad very good, I used them for 3years no with no problems. Male dogs
will tent to lift up their leg and then miss it sometimes but as long as they know
that the pad is the pee spot we shouldn't mind.

My dogs can drink until before cage time at night which is at about 11.30PM
I make sure they go to the pad or outside before bedtime. Mostly on the pad and
it works out perfect.

I have a pup at the moment and I cage him at night,not because he would pee
everywhere because he doesn't but he would run after the cats and play for ever ;)
When he wants to pee around 4AM he scratches his door and then I let him out
and he goes pee on the pad.

I cuddle him a little and then he goes back in the cage and I go to bed.In the beginning
he did pee next to the pad sometimes but I cought him and I corrected him by moving
him to the pad.
He is only 4months old and after a week with me there are no accidents at all,I really
think that the pad is a good thing.

[alibuch]

I don't like pee pads either, like Ryan. My family dogs back home have always been trained to go outside. And they have never, ever had accidents in the house.
The only problems I've had out of Louise here is if I get home late. She knows bathroom time is when I wake up around 11a, at 830p when I get home from work and at 2a before bed. If I wake up earlier, she gets at extra walk at 1245p before I leave for work and on weekends she gets walked more because I'm usually home more.

I have had the unpleasantness of waking up to a pile of turds on my bed and I can't say that was any fault of my own. haha

[pukka]

I would never use a pad for a cocker spaniel either. I would just walk them
on time.

[pukka]

Hi Dawna,

I have been looking for an answer for your question and there must be some
change in your dogs situation that make them suddenly change their potty
behaviour.

I was thinking that maybe your male dog is bothering your female dog? Is he
neutered?

[dawna]

Hi,

Well ya I think maybe sometimes Lincoln bothers Deva. They are both spayed and neutered now. We recently just got their crates, but we often find their toys on the couch (which they are not allowed on haha)...
I think perhaps the pee pad has just really allowed them to think that they can pee in the house. I need to figure out the best way to crate train them as a technique for house training. We don't want to crate them all the time, forever, but I need them to be good for when we go to my parents house. I don't want them thinking that the carpet is a giant pee pad!

[alibuch]

With crate training though, you only use the crate until they're trained. It's not a permanent "forever" thing.
The simplest way is just to crate them when are you aren't home. Take them out 3-4 times a day. They'll begin to associate outside with "potty time" and won't go in the house any more. Give them praise for peeing/pooing outside. You can buy tiny training treats. At first, give them one each time they go outside then slowly stop giving them to them and just praise with "good boy/girl".
It might take a couple months but they'll learn. The biggest thing is to be consistent.
As for the couch, you gotta let em know who's boss. My dog knows she's not allowed on the couch AT ALL and she's only allowed on my bed for sleeping.
When I first got her I felt bad disciplining her because I could tell she'd been abused before she was at the shelter. I got over it and so did she. She's so cuddly now. And no accidents in the house (unless I am gone too long).

[dawna]

Thanks for the advice. I am just wondering however, how do we make sure they don't jump on the couch when we are gone? They never do it when we are around because they know it is bad, but we find their toys on the couch everyday. We can't punish them when we get back because they won't understand. If you have any suggestions I would love to hear them!

Also I am having just one more issue with the crate training. Lincoln is now only 6-7 months old. Am I able to expect him to hold his bladder for 8-9 hours? If not then how can I train him when we are gone for so long? Deva is full grown and we shouldn't have too many problems I hope, but like I said, she has somehow managed to start peeing on the floor (next to the peepad) consistently.

[alibuch]

Well, if you're crate training them, they'll be in the crate while you're gone so there's no way they get on the couch.
My sister got her dog when she was 4 weeks old (the shelter lied about her age and the dog subsequently got really sick because she couldn't eat the food). Anyway, my sister was still in high school. The pup was taken out when my parents woke up (around 6a) and then she was taken out again when my sister got home from school (around 3p). She never once had an accident in her crate. Dogs don't like to pee where they sleep. And your dog is 7 months old... he should be okay. All you can do is try. I don't think you'll have any problems with the crate training.

[dawna]

Ok so now I just have one more question (for the time being anyways).

Our main goal obviously is to abolish the pee pads, however we are still getting them used to the crates right now and must leave the pads while we are at work. Once we start crating them while we are gone then we will take them away for good.

Here is my question. What do we do if we are going to be gone for an extended period of time? Like 13-14 hours lets say? Do we leave them with a pee pad or would that just confuse them? I don't think crating them for that amount of time would be good so I am just wondering if we should just deal with the mess when we get home and consider it an accident, or is it ok to give them back the pee pad for that day? The answer might be a bit obvious but I am wondering what other people think.

[pukka]

Your situation is complicated in every way for the dogs :p
Pesonally I would never leave my dogs more than 8hours but that is my
choice.With or without pee pad.
I have the luxery so far not having problems with my neighbours and I want
to keep it this way. Dogs do howl/bark when they badly have to pee and
there is nobody around.

True,when you take your dog for boarding at the vet they have to stay in the
cage day and night.But then you create another behaviour problem which mean
that the dogs will pee in their cage/bed when you take them back home.

When I went for trips with my husband I had my Korean friend taking care for
my pets.I paid her generous for it.
Now we just take turns for big trips and we if we go out we make sure we won't
stay longer than 8hours.

I have a thin Korean matras on the floor to play and I have a fosterpuppy in the
house but if he has to potty,he goes to the pad,maybe I am just lucky.
My 2KG smaller maltese does everything on the pad since we took him but my
other normal size maltese will wait until I take him out.
He would not do anything in the house.
My mini pin goes to our bathroom or outside either way.

To me,as your sitation is, I think you do not have a choice than letting your dogs
potty on the pad.
I suggest an extra pad for in the bathroom or balcony if your balcony
is covered. My dogs usually pee inside and poop on the balcony pad.1 pad is not
enough for 2dogs.Good luck!

http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x84/yoniwibilou/SI851115.jpg

[Ryan]

your situation is a bit complicated. I partly agree with Pukka. I would never leave my dogs any longer than 12 hours (Baxter is completely trained and doesn't need the crate, and winnie is crate trained, but will be weened off of it in a few months.) because they need to go out at least twice a day. My suggestion would be to put the dogs in a secure room, such as a bathroom, or those little pantry/sunrooms that many korean apartments have, with a pee pad. This way they will still associate that they cannot potty in the main area of the apartment, and as long as you keep them out of those rooms (keeping the door closed), you shouldn't have any problems when you are home. :)

[dawna]

Hey,
Thanks for all of the suggestions. We don't like to leave are dogs alone for that long often, but sometimes it does have to happen. We are normally gone for nine hours because of work though so no matter what the dogs must be home for a while by themselves...I really like the idea about the balcony..we couldnt' do that in the winter but now the weather is great for that. Only when we are gone for extended periods though. I still want to abolish the pee pad usage just because I have noticed our dogs are kind of taking advantage of them. Pukka you are so lucky to have such good dogs!