Discussion re:Angel [OFF TOPIC POSTS MOVED HERE]

[Scarlet13]

I'm sorry to hear that. I had never taken a bus before I went to get Bibi either but it is actually very easy. I'm sorry you feel that way

[alibuch]

Actually grahamcrackers, I don't think you are really so far apart. And the bus system is easy to navigate. However, excuses are always readily available.

[grahamcrackers]

Actually grahamcrackers, I don't think you are really so far apart. And the bus system is easy to navigate. However, excuses are always readily available.

this was a very rude, highly uncalled for comment.
i was not giving excuses, i was stating my concerns.
i am allowed to be concerned. i am allowed to think through my circumstances without the threat of condemnation of total strangers.
all i said was i was concerned about the distance and that i would think about it. yikes. i am very hurt by both of your responses to me.

[alibuch]

No one is condemning you. However, I've seen a lot of people come of here and say that are very interested in adopting a dog and then give up very very easily.. leaving the foster families basically stuck.
Scarlet simply said she went from near Busan to Seoul without ever having taken the bus and didn't have any problems. And you really aren't that far far from Scarlet, hence my response. Sorry if I came across as rude...

And everyone on this site is more than happy to help you figure out how to get somewhere the easiest way possible...

[mischief]

Hi Grahamcrackers,

I am sure both alibuch and Scarlett13 are actually very nice people, and only come across as rude to you because they care so much about this/these dogs and have already done so much themselves.

Please don't take it personally, as I am sure both you and they mean well. It can just be difficult for rescuers in the face of so many animals to save, and not enough people to help them.

[Scarlet13]

I don't believe I was rude, I merely stated that I was worried about the same issue as you are and that it was easily overcome. I am sorry that you are offended. But Angel deserves someone to look out for her interests, it concerns me that you are so easily defeated at such an early stage.

Angel is worth 2 hours on a bus, it just sounded like you didn't think so.

[alibuch]

I agree with Scarlet. Plus, if she isn't looking out for her foster dog, who is? Foster 'parents' have to have the dog's best interest in mind.
Also, if that hurt your feelings, then you better be prepared for living in Korea... Koreans will point and stare and laugh at foreigners here... Gotta build up some tough skin. I'm probably the youngest person on this site and even I know that.

[Karen]

Hi Grahamcrackers,

If you are right in or right near Daegu, it makes sense to check out the KAPS shelter (http://www.koreananimals.or.kr/zboard_en/view.php?id=rescue&no=17)also. They have many sweet dogs large and small equally deserving of loving homes.

If you visit KAPS and no one grabs your heart the way sweet little Angel has, then maybe that will indicate that Angel is the right one for you. Visiting any dog at least once before final decisions are made is always a good idea...

Getting around Korea is actually pretty easy once you get used to it, the buses and trains connect to everywhere. I can totally understand being nervous the first few times, I don't think you were making excuses for anything. I missed my stop once and went 3 hours (round trip) out of my way :o

[Karen]

Also, if that hurt your feelings, then you better be prepared for living in Korea... Koreans will point and stare and laugh at foreigners here... Gotta build up some tough skin. I'm probably the youngest person on this site and even I know that.


No matter what the outside world is like, I'd like this community to be open, friendly, and supportive of each other's desire to help. These are all emotional issues and we need to make sure we try to understand each other. So, let's move back to the topic at hand, finding Angel a home! Thanks!

[grahamcrackers]

Thank you so much, Karen, for your understanding. I do understand the protective spirit of those who foster dogs and thier desire to find the best homes for their charges. If they want what is best, perhaps they should not be so quick to press people into adopting. I made one comment about being interested and yikes the chaos that has insued! There are 5 of us in my family so it would cost $100 just for us to get there and meet Angel, we do things as a family you see. I'd rather put that money into supporting a local shelter which is in desperate need. There were many obsticles actually and I believe God does that stuff for a reason, to help us slow down and take a long look at the decisions we're making. Angel is an adorable sweet dog and we are still very interested. We are on this page checking on her twice a day. But there are still obsticles which may or may not seem legitimate to some. We will be going to the Daegu shelter very soon and I will keep in mind what you said, Karen, about being open to which dog is tugging on our families hearts the most!
Thank you again and I apologize for any frustration and confusion that this has caused.
Wanting the best for these precious animals...

[grahamcrackers]

I agree with Scarlet. Plus, if she isn't looking out for her foster dog, who is? Foster 'parents' have to have the dog's best interest in mind.
Also, if that hurt your feelings, then you better be prepared for living in Korea... Koreans will point and stare and laugh at foreigners here... Gotta build up some tough skin. I'm probably the youngest person on this site and even I know that.

We've lived in Korea a year, 6 months in Seoul, 6 months in Deagu and the Korean people have been absolutely lovely. Maybe that's why I was hurt so quickly by your comments because my tough skin was left behind in the states.
I'm willing to do whatever it takes to adopt the dog that is right for our family when we're sure that it's the right dog and I'm sure that when we do, the Koreans will be very helpful in helping us get there.

[Scarlet13]

[QUOTE=grahamcrackers;2511]If they want what is best, perhaps they should not be so quick to press people into adopting. QUOTE]

I find that statement to be rather misleading. I merely requested that if your were interested in Angel that you could:

1) Please fill out the adoption form located on this site
2)When the form has been completed and I have have discussed it with my co-foster parent, we could then set up an introduction. From there we would judge the situation based on what is best for Angel.


I have not asked you to adopt her, I have merely asked you to fill out a form, and consider how you would be meeting her. I do not believe either of those things to be unusual requests. I have no intention of adopting Angel into a situation that I know nothing about. I do not see how asking you to do either of these things is pressuring you. Anyway have a nice day!

I will post new pictures of Angel today (bathed and clean...yay!), we are having a puppy picnic today. Six dogs in total all rescued from Daejeon...Bibi is so excited! :)

[alibuch]

Awww I wish Louise could come to the puppy picnic.


And grahamcrackers, if you've lived here so long, there shouldn't be much of an issue with public transport.

[grahamcrackers]

i have never met such a judgemental group. my word.
do you people not have struggles? mine is with transportation. i get lost in my own back yard. i get turned around and get lost very easily and panic, severely panic.
so sue me. maybe i'm not good enough to adopt a pet.
i will not be back to this site.
i do sincerly hope you find a home for "angel" and all the other precious animals that need loving homes.

[Karen]

And grahamcrackers, if you've lived here so long, there shouldn't be much of an issue with public transport.

This type of comment is not acceptable. Read the posting guidelines. (http://www.animalrescuekorea.org/forums/showthread.php?t=406)

[alibuch]

I'm sorry, Karen.

[mischief]

I'm probably stepping in where I shouldn't be (so apologies in advance Karen if I'm wrong to do this)

But that should probably read,

"I'm sorry grahamcrackers."

I can admit to myself that I'm wrong a fair amount of the time (perhaps even right now! :o ) but I can definitely see how grahamcrackers felt pressured and threatened by overly well-meaning (but still awesome :p ) people.

It can be hard to step back and realize that not everyone can give as much as you do (and everyone here does so much, it's truly inspiring! :) ) or feels the same way as yourself. Especially when you're really excited about the possibilities that someone else is presenting. It can be really easy to start down a potential path without them. Later on when you realize the other person isn't immediately following you down that same path, it can be disappointing. But it's not their fault, they have to chose and make a commitment, and we can't do that for them.

Everyone is different, with different circumstances, feelings, and level of help the are able to provide. We shouldn't turn against, or turn away, anyone who is trying to help, because every little bit counts, and every little bit is needed.

We're all on the same boat (or ark, it you will). We should all try to get along, because the ocean is vast, and we might never be able to drain it dry.

...




Er, so, how is Angel doing? Is her knee arthritic, or is it like a calcium deposit that makes it a bit difficult to walk? She looks like a a real soft, fluffy cutie. :) I hope she finds a good home soon!

[Scarlet13]

Regardless of GC feelings this tread is not about her it is about Angel. I would much rather it stay about Angel and not be cluttered with discussions about her hurt feelings. She has chosen to go another route and I wish her and her future dog the best of luck. If you would like to debate whether or not she was mistreated please start your own thread. I don't want potential parents to have to make their way through pages of irrelevant dialog. I'm sorry if that seems harsh.

Here are some new pictures of Angel, they were taken yesterday at our doggie playdate. She is doing so much better, she is still shy and stayed pretty close to her foster dad but she is much braver and aware. Her knee does not seem to bother her, but I suspect that it is one of those things that will be an issue later in life if it is not corrected in her youth.

http://i31.tinypic.com/2gx1o5c.jpg

http://i31.tinypic.com/28i3mty.jpg

http://i25.tinypic.com/20u7qt1.jpg

http://i25.tinypic.com/208emxl.jpg
OOPS they got into the beer! Angel and Mannie

[Karen]

Regardless of GC feelings this tread is not about her it is about Angel. I would much rather it stay about Angel and not be cluttered with discussions about her hurt feelings. She has chosen to go another route and I wish her and her future dog the best of luck. If you would like to debate whether or not she was mistreated please start your own thread. I don't want potential parents to have to make their way through pages of irrelevant dialog. I'm sorry if that seems harsh.


I don't think that seems harsh. You're absolutely right that the discussion got off-topic and cluttered the thread about Angel, so I've moved the off-topic posts here. If anyone feels that a few more posts from this thread (or any other thread, particularly in the adoptable animals section) should be moved, send me a PM, no problemo.

I must say, though, grahamcrackers had a perfect right to defend herself publicly from others' judgments on her.

[Scarlet13]

See I felt like she was attacking me because I required prospective parents to fill out a form and to be willing to travel to meet Angel. I think that it is perfectly responsible to expect that someone really interested in an animal will be willing to inconvenience themselves. I felt as though her complaint of a 2.5 hour trip (when it is actually 1 50mins) was a bit lame frankly, but I don't believe that I was ever rude to her, I expressed regret that she was apparently put off by the journey but I kept my responses civil and brief. Then I get people remarking on my rudeness, or even seeming attempting to justify my apparent rudeness.

I think she was out of line to make personal remarks against me. I particularly found her comments about people (me?) pressuring her to adopt Angel very offensive and rather arrogant. I care about this dog, and for her to imply that I would be willing to pawn her off on some unknown person is highly offensive. The fact that she wouldn't even fill out the adoption form showed me that she was not suitable to adopt Angel.

[Karen]

Hi Scarlet13,

Just to clarify, I don't think you were the one being rude. You kept your responses civil and that is appreciated. I started this thread of off-topic posts with a comment of yours just to try to contextualize, maybe it was not the best spot to cut the discussion. Sorry if that caused confusion, I don't think any of your comments were rude.

In any case, if someone doesn't want to travel to meet a dog, then they don't want to travel. Screening process finished. Since interpretations of motives are only interpretations, there is no need to post them. They don't help anyone get adopted (again, I know it wasn't you who made those comments originally).

Scarlet13, you are doing a great job being thorough with the adoption procedure. That is not even a question. Keep up the fantastic work and do please keep posting the awesome photos! It's great to read and see the updates!

For what it's worth, I've learned from this experience. I'm going to be quicker to moderate any remarks that seem sarcastic because they only cause misunderstanding and rapid conversation degeneration all around. Forums are a breeding ground for misinterpretations. My apologies for letting the thread get out of hand.

I hope we can all re-focus on our main purpose now, helping the animals.

Thanks for sharing your feelings.

[grahamcrackers]

I do understand the protective spirit of those who foster dogs and thier desire to find the best homes for their charges. If they want what is best, perhaps they should not be so quick to press people into adopting. I made one comment about being interested and yikes the chaos that has insued!

I did not say anything about filling out the paperwork. I've never said anything about having to fill out the paperwork. I'll fill out the application now, if you'd like to know all about me. My point is, I was just asking if you thought Angel would be happy in our environment, ie apt, teens, a cat. I felt like it snowballed from there and all because I was concerned about he distance (concerned NOT complaining). (My husband went to Busan to run a marathon and it was 1 1/2 hours) We will go the distance, as I said before, we will do what it takes when we feel that it is the right decision. I felt like I was being condemned because I didn't hop on a bus or train or whatever that minute and come rescue Angel. I really was feeling pressured and condemned by several of the posts and that is why I made the above comment. I do apologize if you felt like I was attacking you personally about some lame paperwork.

My husband said that the main problems with forums and email, etc is that you really can't know the person's intent or get a feel for their tone of voice or their personality always and that sometimes creates misunderstandings and hurt feelings. I do believe that is what has happened here. I'm sure that you are a perfectly wonderful person who has a heart bursting with love for these dogs. I know you want what is best for them. I just wish we could've communicated in such a way that you could've seen that I am not an evil person who is judgemental and quick to give up. I am not. My family loves animals and have really started to be burdened for the animals here in Korea. We are just beginning the process of seeing what we can do to help. My inquiry about Angel was the very first post I made anywhere about any dog. We are just beginning and it was a bad beginning and my heart is still hurting over it.
Wishing we could start over...
With my sincerest apologies...

[luvadog]

I understand you GrahamCracker.

I have been here for 4 years and still get intimidated when I travel alone. I can still get lost in my own back yard. I also panic when these things happen. I have also been challenged when I inquired about an animal even though I have kept my pets for their lifetimes and I have taken Toby to the States with me 3 times. Of course they don't know this, but for Goodness sakes, let the person meet the animals first and check them out. By attacking someone's character or motives and criticizing, you chase them away and lose the battle. There are a lot of shy people out there who are the best pet owners. The best.

My intention here is to help change your methods to avoid hurting the innocent. I am answering in this thread and you can remove my comments if you like. But in all fairness, this part of Scarlett13's comments should also be removed. Thank you.

<<<<<Regardless of GC feelings this tread is not about her it is about Angel. I would much rather it stay about Angel and not be cluttered with discussions about her hurt feelings. She has chosen to go another route and I wish her and her future dog the best of luck. If you would like to debate whether or not she was mistreated please start your own thread. I don't want potential parents to have to make their way through pages of irrelevant dialog. I'm sorry if that seems harsh.>>>>>

[Scarlet13]

My husband said that the main problems with forums and email, etc is that you really can't know the person's intent or get a feel for their tone of voice or their personality always and that sometimes creates misunderstandings and hurt feelings. I do believe that is what has happened here.


This is very true. I appreciate those comments very much. Thank-you.

Karen, thank-you as well.

[mischief]

Then I get people remarking on my rudeness, or even seeming attempting to justify my apparent rudeness.


Hi Scarlett!

Yep, I'm pretty sure you're referencing me in the above quote. Feel free to call me out by name (mischief :) ) next time. I actually prefer it to being refered to as "people" because then I'm not 100% sure you are talking about me or not.

But maybe when you were writing it you couldn't remember who said what, and that's ok, because I forget names all the time, to my distress.

Anyway, I wanted to apologize to you for hijacking Angel's thread (twice) and if you felt I was attacking you and calling you rude. I see now that when I wrote, "... and only come across as rude to you..." the rude part can either be construed as "rude to you" or "rude, to you"

Hindsight says I probably should have added a comma there. (I think? that would change it grammatically, right?)

Sorry about that. I just don't like to see people distressed when I think they are trying to do good. I was trying to write something to negate the bad vibe I was getting from the thread, but it didn't work very well.

It wasn't me just trying to cause mischief, I swear! :p