Fostering discussion [post moved from other thread]

[Ingrid64]

Please help Graham~
He needs a home soon! He is a great dog: all trained and no issues at all~

Annie, why not take him with you? This is perhaps your and his destiny... It could just be, that the Powers that Be can clearly see how much he loves you... Great pain is caused them when they become separated from us (pain of separation they know well, when we first adopt these poor little ones). This is why I can never foster animals.... Once they pass through my front door, they stay for keeps. If they have some potty issues, or other issues, we are supposed to HELP them, and have the patience and intelligence to teach them new habits; and through patient love, build up their broken-down confidence.

Especially shelter animals often have to be taught that they are allowed to have dignity, and feel worthy of our love. How can we just say (as too many do), after a few days, ‘Oh, it just isn’t working!’ Do people say that about their naughty and disobedient children? Why not have the same commitment with a pet then, who is usually much more obedient, loyal and pure at heart than human children, anyway.

I see a lovely natured lab at Dr. Pets, and was appalled to learn from the one Vet there, that he was abandoned by a foreigner who went back to the USA. I was livid, actually. You mean to say, they ‘loved’ this especially beautifully natured dog, until they went back home to their old and convenient life? It strikes me odd, that they had enough money for a plane ticket back home (and for all the travels to other nearby Asian countries, while they lived in Korea), but they couldn’t find that money for the dog’s plane ticket? Naaaa… Humans make me MAD. In addition, I feel very embarrassed by some of the foreigners who talk about how Koreans treat their pets, and they end up doing the precise demeaning act to the Korean animals!

I say, this is our duty as foreigners in Korea. Once we embark on that journey to help a Korean animal, we are to go the full nine yards. If no new caretaker of that animal is found (and a GOOD one at that), then we are to fly them back home with us. No animal deserves to go through that much heartache. They are not stuffed animals that can just be passed around until they end up with the umpteenth foreigner, who may just dump them at the local vet when they return to their home country… Let one and all understand a fundamental characteristic, of animals: They have very REAL feelings, and they love with A PASSION; and they most certainly love us until death – unlike the way humans often tend to love, and unlike the way humans commit themselves, to them.

Annie, if no FOREVER home is found now (no more temporary homes can do for this little heart), then he is clearly meant to be YOURS! :-)

May what is the very best for Graham, pan out! This is my honest and deepest wish for little Graham.

Best Regards,

Ingrid

[Karen]

I moved this post out of Graham's adoption thread so that his thread could stay focused on finding him a home.

Ingrid, I think you've misunderstood Annie's role. She is not fostering Graham, she's helping to promote his adoption. Regardless, I understand your frustration about foreigners abandoning their pets when they leave Korea, but I feel strongly against pressuring foster parents (or anyone) to adopt. Far fewer people would consider opening their homes to a foster animal if they felt they would be obliged (or pressured) to keep them forever should adoption take a long time.

Of course it's wonderful when foster parents do adopt, but being the temporary transition between street or shelter life and permanent home is an extremely important role which increases adoptability and saves lives. I would hate for anyone to feel like they were "only fostering" because they weren't in a position to adopt.

[red dog]

Thanks for making those important points, Karen. When I had my first foster dog a few years ago, she got very attached but I was in no position to keep her. Amber found a good home, but I know she would have preferred to stay with me. It made me so angry when someone who should have known better tried to guilt me into adopting her--and later sent me a nasty e-mail because I wasn't sad enough about her adoption!

I'm sure it wasn't Ingrid's intention, but her post came across as equating a foster situation with a failed adoption--where a human commits to another animal for life and then changes his/her mind. That's not a fair comparison.

[annie]

No, I'm not fostering Graham. I'm coordinating his adoption and trying to help him.
I would be in serious trouble if I kept all the fosters I had!! I believe in adopting out so I can keep helping as many as possible.

[luvadog]

Annie, if no FOREVER home is found now (no more temporary homes can do for this little heart), then he is clearly meant to be YOURS! :-)

I don't think Ingrid was trying to guilt anyone into adopting. I think this statement is just to point out a little serendipity with Graham or any other animal who walks into our lives.

I was the same way..if one little angel came into my home, if I couldn't find a home for them, then I knew beyond a shadow of a doubt that I would take them to the States with me. People misunderstood me too when I was unsure of what I was doing in the beginning and overloaded at first at the same time I lost my job and moved.

And there is one precious baby whom I cannot stop thinking about and wish I had brought her here. I had Olive a long time and even though I only "fostered" her, she was like mine. And I miss her so much.

But I know Ingrid meant nothing pushy. Just passionate. :)

[Ingrid64]

I moved this post out of Graham's adoption thread so that his thread could stay focused on finding him a home.

Ingrid, I think you've misunderstood Annie's role. She is not fostering Graham, she's helping to promote his adoption. Regardless, I understand your frustration about foreigners abandoning their pets when they leave Korea, but I feel strongly against pressuring foster parents (or anyone) to adopt. Far fewer people would consider opening their homes to a foster animal if they felt they would be obliged (or pressured) to keep them forever should adoption take a long time.

Of course it's wonderful when foster parents do adopt, but being the temporary transition between street or shelter life and permanent home is an extremely important role which increases adoptability and saves lives. I would hate for anyone to feel like they were "only fostering" because they weren't in a position to adopt.

Dear Karen,

It is kind that Annie is trying to help somebody else to find a home for their foster dog. Then, this email is intended for the current foster person... If no really excellent and permanent home can now be found, it would be unfair that he is forced to break very painful emotion ties with his current caretaker, just to stay for a little while with somebody else again, and this heartache is just perpetuated, time and time again – that is when it is best that a dog who was born in a no-kill shelter, where he gets food and a place to sleep (and has never known any other life), is never introduced to a loving home, which will soon no longer be theirs (since the dog will come to believe, that he has finally found his ‘Mecca’ in this person , …), and be forced to live like a nomad, in home, after home. This is extremely cruel to this animal.

I cannot help but speak my mind about this situation today, for the sakes of the poor animals. And I would like to emphasize it: If no other way exists – ONE foster is enough for one such animal (which may have initially been to save his or her life), and the 100 percent effort is to then find him his final and forever home. I totally see things from the animals' perspective – the human's perspective, is totally irrelevant – because we are totally able to make things work to the best for each pet.

Then, I believe that I was misunderstood on the following… I never implied that if a dog is not fostered or adopted out again, that it is a failed adoption. It just means exactly as I said it: It is then destiny for the dog to stay with his foster parent, or for this person to fly them out to their home country, and if they do not want to keep this animal permanently (and why not, I ask?), then they should endeavor to keep looking for that permanent home, aboard – each foster dog deserves that kind of commitment. This is all that I mean. We should love that much, that we will go all those extra miles (even spending money for plane tickets), to give the pet that which they deserve: a permanent home, as soon as possible.

Yes… I may sound frank, but I don't have time for people who give pets a cold brush off, when they are not able to find a home before they leave the shores of Korea. I also don't imply that all ARK members are like this, but I have dealt with one or two people here, who just do not understand commitment and loyalty to animals (especially shelter animals, who have known enough pain already). These kinds of people should not be in this animals business.

Touching on this issue, is also not about putting people on a guild trip (and if the shoe fits, then of course, we are to wear it…). This is all about planning. For example, if we rescue animals too big to keep in our apartments, and they do not become re-homed fast enough, we must make sure that we can find a way to fly these and other un-adopted pets, back out to our home countries (even if family and friends and ex-colleagues) all chip in for the pets’ plan tickets. It is amazing what all can happen, when we commit ourselves in this way!

Good luck to everyone who has their whole heart in rescuing animals, and to finding that forever home, after they have fostered. This is what is the right thing to do for each animal. They just hurt TOO much, when moved around as if they have no feeling hearts – and I feel extremely strong about this, and can never entertain another view on this, because animals do NOT deserve a broken heart AGAIN – EVER.

Folks. Please do not misunderstand what I mean. Anyhow, I believe that all true animals’ people, know what I mean…, and also feel as powerfully as I do about this issue. It is not about us humans and our different viewpoints, it is only about what is going to be the VERY best for the animal, always, and always.

Best Regards,

Ingrid
May Compassion Be Our Only Fashion.

[Ingrid64]

Thanks for making those important points, Karen. When I had my first foster dog a few years ago, she got very attached but I was in no position to keep her. Amber found a good home, but I know she would have preferred to stay with me. It made me so angry when someone who should have known better tried to guilt me into adopting her--and later sent me a nasty e-mail because I wasn't sad enough about her adoption!

I'm sure it wasn't Ingrid's intention, but her post came across as equating a foster situation with a failed adoption--where a human commits to another animal for life and then changes his/her mind. That's not a fair comparison.

Hi, I just quote one paragraph of my response on this thread: 'Then, I believe that I was misunderstood on the following… I never implied that if a dog is not fostered or adopted out again, that it is a failed adoption. It just means exactly as I said it: It is then destiny for the dog to stay with his foster parent, or for this person to fly them out to their home country, and if they do not want to keep this animal permanently (and why not, I ask?), then they should endeavor to keep looking for that permanent home, aboard – each foster dog deserves that kind of commitment. This is all that I mean. We should love that much, that we will go all those extra miles (even spending money for plane tickets), to give the pet that which they deserve: a permanent home, as soon as possible.'

Perhaps I should have more correctly answered, 'I never meant that fostering means a failed adoption.' Of course, the ultimate goal, after one person fostered a pet, is to find a PERMANENT home for that pet, next. No passing around of pets, can ever suffice, since a dog (or cat, etc.) is not a stuffed animal... BIG heartbreak for the pet, every time he is forced to break ties with his previous beloved master...

Best of luck, in your work with the animals. May it always be what is best for the pet involved.

Kind Regards,

Ingrid

[Ingrid64]

I don't think Ingrid was trying to guilt anyone into adopting. I think this statement is just to point out a little serendipity with Graham or any other animal who walks into our lives.

I was the same way..if one little angel came into my home, if I couldn't find a home for them, then I knew beyond a shadow of a doubt that I would take them to the States with me. People misunderstood me too when I was unsure of what I was doing in the beginning and overloaded at first at the same time I lost my job and moved.

And there is one precious baby whom I cannot stop thinking about and wish I had brought her here. I had Olive a long time and even though I only "fostered" her, she was like mine. And I miss her so much.

But I know Ingrid meant nothing pushy. Just passionate. :)

Thanks Sandy, you always understand what I mean, and where I am coming from. You clearly still feel bad about Olive... But, sometimes we make choices we think are best at the time. We are human, right? But, even for any mistakes that we make, what I mean is, that we are to always put our own interest to one side, and always do what is best for the pet - and that means taking them WITH us (or even adopting them ourselves), if no other options come to light (and if we cannot get them forever homes fast enough, it means we need to SLOW DOWN, so that pets don't get hurt in the process). I believe, that if we need to take some un-adopted pets with us to our home country, this would most certainly be our destiny! A Bigger Power decides over these things! :-)

Kind Regards,

Ingrid

[Ingrid64]

Thanks for making those important points, Karen. When I had my first foster dog a few years ago, she got very attached but I was in no position to keep her. Amber found a good home, but I know she would have preferred to stay with me. It made me so angry when someone who should have known better tried to guilt me into adopting her--and later sent me a nasty e-mail because I wasn't sad enough about her adoption!

I'm sure it wasn't Ingrid's intention, but her post came across as equating a foster situation with a failed adoption--where a human commits to another animal for life and then changes his/her mind. That's not a fair comparison.

I totally understand, if somebody adopts a dog, and some unforeseen situation arises. In my case, I would just move or find a new job, if these got in my way! For me, my commitment to my pets, are until death. I have this same view on marriage. I guess, when you adopt a pet, it is also like marriage, because it is a forever commitment - anyway, to the dog (cat) it most certainly is! I want to encourage everyone, do not be afraid of peoples opinions, if your landlord becomes unreasonable, find a way to move to another place - even if you have to use some of your savings to put down a deposit, and have peace of mind AND your pets!

Best Regards,

Ingrid

[red dog]

I totally understand, if somebody adopts a dog, and some unforeseen situation arises. In my case, I would just move or find a new job, if these got in my way! For me, my commitment to my pets, are until death. I have this same view on marriage. I guess, when you adopt a pet, it is also like marriage, because it is a forever commitment - anyway, to the dog (cat) it most certainly is! I want to encourage everyone, do not be afraid of peoples opinions, if your landlord becomes unreasonable, find a way to move to another place - even if you have to use some of your savings to put down a deposit, and have peace of mind AND your pets!

Best Regards,

Ingrid

Yes, but none of that is relevant to what I said. I fully agree that adopting an animal and giving her up is a disaster to be avoided at all costs. Fostering is different.

[Karen]

Hi Ingrid,

Thank you for your responses. I'm glad we can have this discussion about fostering, one of the most important parts of animal rescue, in my opinion :)

I agree with you that it's important that foster parents are responsible and plan well to minimize instability in the lives of the animals they are helping. This responsibility for planning must be shared by the people or organization who arrange the foster situation (unless of course we're talking about a street rescue or stray, which is hard to plan for). I think most foster parents have the best intentions of helping out until the animal can be adopted.

However, I disagree with your characterization of change as being cruel:

If no really excellent and permanent home can now be found, it would be unfair that he is forced to break very painful emotion ties with his current caretaker, just to stay for a little while with somebody else again, and this heartache is just perpetuated, time and time again – that is when it is best that a dog who was born in a no-kill shelter, where he gets food and a place to sleep (and has never known any other life), is never introduced to a loving home, which will soon no longer be theirs (since the dog will come to believe, that he has finally found his ‘Mecca’ in this person , …), and be forced to live like a nomad, in home, after home. This is extremely cruel to this animal.

For one, dogs are adaptable (cats maybe less so, but I don't know enough about them to say). Yes, it is always preferable to have a stable home and not to break emotional bonds, but dogs forgive far more easily than we do. When they enter a new, loving, structured environment, they adapt and bond again. Dogs live in the present, it is humans who worry about the future and the past and we project human emotional states onto animals (this is not to say animals don't have their own emotions).

Just to make sure no one thinks I'm defending pet abandonment, I'm not. Let me clarify with a personal example:

I applied to foster with a local organization a couple months ago. In my fostering application I let the group know I'd be moving at the end of the summer and couldn't foster longer than that (3 months). My fosteree, Petey, arrived in June and will be with us until he finds a home or until we move. We can't adopt right now.

We're his second foster home since he was found as a stray in May, so he's had some instability. Since being with us he's learned better manners, better housetraining, has gained weight, has begun to lose his fear of men, etc. I know his likes and his quirks and can share this info with potential adopters. All of these things make him more adoptable.

Homeless animals would all benefit from this kind of care in a good foster home, even if only for a couple months. Shelters are noisy, stressful, places. Even the best intentioned, cleanest, kindest no-kill shelters cannot offer the kind of personalized care and training that a foster home can.

Yes, I would love to see Petey adopted before I go, but if he isn't I will not think it's cruel of me to see him go into another foster home which can provide the same kind of care. He will love them, too, I have no doubt :)

[lauraallover]

Had to add my 2 cents.

My current foster, Dakota, I adore as if he were my own puppy. He's bright, funny, a bit annoying sometimes, but he always does the cutest things to make me smile anyway. I love him as if he were my own, but he is not.

My cats I would do anything for. If I knew I couldn't bring them to Korea, I wouldn't have come. They're my babies. I adore them. I love Dakota as well, but he's not mine. If I had to suddenly move, I would want to find him a different foster home who would love him as much as I did. If I couldn't find him a different foster, I'd bring him with me, but I'd rather find him another home if I was in no position (mentally, financially, etc) to adopt.

Example, if I were to move back to England in say, a SHORT amount of time, and I did have the finances to bring him with me, I still wouldn't. Why? He doesn't have a pet passport, he would have to spend SIX months in quarantine. I know you said, Ingrid, just move somewhere else, which I could do because I have an American Visa, BUT, what if my mother was dying and only have a few months to live? Pets are VERY important, but would it be fair to THAT dog to put it in quarantine, instead of finding it another home.

It's just a thought.

[luvadog]

My cats I would do anything for. If I knew I couldn't bring them to Korea, I wouldn't have come. They're my babies. I adore them. I love Dakota as well, but he's not mine.

Example, if I were to move back to England in say, a SHORT amount of time, and I did have the finances to bring him with me, I still wouldn't. Why? He doesn't have a pet passport, he would have to spend SIX months in quarantine. I know you said, Ingrid, just move somewhere else, which I could do because I have an American Visa, BUT, what if my mother was dying and only have a few months to live? Pets are VERY important, but would it be fair to THAT dog to put it in quarantine, instead of finding it another home.

It's just a thought.

Good point. But are you going to have to put your cats in quarantine when you return to England? I know someone who adopted in Korea and thought her dog had to be in quarantine when she returned. She was willing to spend the more than $5000 to do it. But she found another way.

I really don't think Ingrid knew that Annie is not really fostering Graham, is that right? Just announcing his availability?

I learned that when I fostered, I needed to have an adoptor in place before bringing them home. That way I could maintain a reasonable emotional distance and accept in the beginning that they were not mine. I was the nanny, but if the adoption fell through, then I would never leave one behind when I went home...if they had been in my home. I cannot even imagine just having an animal for a time and dumping it in a shelter because it was too inconvenient for me to take them home. I have seen that on here. But again, that's not Annie's case either.

I fostered Olive for a long time and failed to find someone suitable. The ones who contacted me were too concerned about her "scars" or other shallow questions about her. I let the adoption thing drop and had resigned myself to taking her home with me and finding her a forever home here in the US, all the while falling more deeply in love with her and knowing she was extra special because she was tortured with cigarette burns.

I had my dogs boarded at Dr. Pet before leaving the country and at the last, Dr. Choi said he could find her a home and one of his associates wanted her. So I agreed and let her go. But I hadn't realized that she had already become "mine" in the sense that the attachment had gone so deep...so now I miss her and wish I had assured a contact with the person who adopted her. I'd love to get just one follow up picture or note on how she's doing.

On another note, maybe dogs live more in the present than we do, but they don't forget. Take for instance Christian the Lion. And my horse is being fostered by his farrier for now until I can get a place of my own. Others have said when I go visit "Oh he won't remember you." But every time I give my special call, he pops his head up like someone has just smacked him, whinnies, comes running and looks for his treat. Every time...but he's 30 now and slowing down a bit. Even one stable manager said after two weeks of my not visiting, he's forgotten...but nope! Even after being in Korea a year, he's the same old Pal. If he hears me, he comes running. I asked the manager if he's coming to her, now that she's feeding him. She said "Nope, only you. It's very strange."

So people have different opinions about this. I wish the animals could tell us but we just have to go on our limited experiences.

Was that 2 cents worth or 6 pence? :p

[luvadog]

Oh, and about if my mother were dying and I had to put my dog in quarantine...hmmm...I probably would...but that's just me. And there are some who would think of me as selfish. Like I said we all make the choices,....but either way...don't we all do it out of love?

[lauraallover]

Good point. But are you going to have to put your cats in quarantine when you return to England? I know someone who adopted in Korea and thought her dog had to be in quarantine when she returned. She was willing to spend the more than $5000 to do it. But she found another way.


You can apply for a pet passport! :D


So people have different opinions about this. I wish the animals could tell us but we just have to go on our limited experiences.

Agreed

[elli120]

You cant apply for a PETS passport from Korea.

You must be in a country approved by DEFRA. Korea isn't one of them. There are two choices:
1- quarantine for 6 months
2- 6 months in a country on the approved list waiting for a PETS passport to be cleared after passing a blood test in that country.

I chose the latter and the cost is £3000 minimum either way and many many people just don't have that kind of money to spare. When you are from the UK it is a VERY expensive decision to take a pet home.

[luvadog]

You cant apply for a PETS passport from Korea.

If the animal originates in England with a PETS passport and comes to Korea, do they get back into the UK on the passport or do they have to go through quarantine when they return like any animal from Korea? What about showing events?

[annie]

It's different if they are originally from England.

[luvadog]

It's different if they are originally from England.

Well...then....adopt an English Bulldog.:D

[elli120]

Im sorry Annie but it is not different for animals originating from the UK. Here is the link to DEFRAs section on UK animals returning to the UK:

"entry of a PETS compliant animal into a non-listed country would result in loss of any PETS compliance."

http://www.defra.gov.uk/wildlife-pets/pets/travel/pets/procedures/owners.htm

An animal entering the UK must have been in a PETS compliant country for 6 months and have a passport. A pet leaving the UK with a PETS passport and travelling to say Korea would then lose its PETS passport status as they have exited the PETS rabies-free countries.

If this was not the case then the whole idea of the scheme (which I don't agree with) would be invalidated. As a dog that travels to Korea but already had a passport issued in the UK would be somehow less exposed to rabies than my dog who has no passport and is also in Korea but cant enter the UK?

Once your pet has a passport you are restricted to going only to places on the EU and non-EU DEFRA approved countries. Even 1 day out of these countries invalidates the passport.

[annie]

That makes sense (well, about the exposure to rabies, not the actual quarantine)!
Thanks for the info elli120

[luvadog]

Elli120___the perfect example of L.A.F.F. :D (Love At First Foster.)

You would not believe how far this girl would go for her "foster" dog. I think the latest is, she's staying in Europe for an extended period so he doesn't have to be in quarantine. Right Elli? Correct me.

She was not going to adopt either because she's from England. She fostered. hmmmm...end of story. Lucky dog.;)

[Karen]

I think we all agree on what the ideal situation is. I think most foster parents would go the extra mile if they could. People who foster do it for love...

The point I was trying to make is that fostering is so important that any help is worth it. Whether you can only foster for a month or even a week, it can help in an emergency situation. Foster parents should not have to justify why they can't adopt. I trust individuals to make their own decisions about their lives, and they should not have to feel pressure from anyone to justify those decisions.

[Karen]

Thread title changed to "fostering discussion" since this isn't about Graham anymore :)

[luvadog]

Im
Once your pet has a passport you are restricted to going only to places on the EU and non-EU DEFRA approved countries. Even 1 day out of these countries invalidates the passport.

Do you know what the approved countries are?

[Karen]

Do you know what the approved countries are?

They're listed at the link she provided above.

[luvadog]

Thanks. It's very encouraging to see Canada, USA, Taiwan and Japan on the list. If someone were seriously thinking about adopting to the UK, then they could have someone foster in one of those countries.

[lauraallover]

Thanks. It's very encouraging to see Canada, USA, Taiwan and Japan on the list. If someone were seriously thinking about adopting to the UK, then they could have someone foster in one of those countries.

If I move back to the UK, I'm planning on moving back to the US for awhile first so my cats will have their passports ready.

[Ingrid64]

I am leaving Korea in 3 weeks and would really love for this wonderful dog to find a quiet spot to live :S
He is so perfect!

I hope that a FOREVER home can be found... Can he not travel at all with you at this time, if no home can be found? It will be truly sad... and NOT fair. Dogs have better memories, and THE firmest loyalty, than ANY (of us decrepit) humans. Many dogs have waited ALL their lives for their owners to come home. I know of two such well-known stories where those sad dogs waited for 10 years respectively, until their deaths, for their owners to come home... Their owners had died, and they kept hoping they would come back for them. Poor... No dog should have to be passed on from one temporary home, to home to home to home to home, and once again, to another temporary home - that's EMOTIONAL TORTURE for those poor animals - and I have firm experience of this. Please... If no home can be found, and he is heart-healthy enough to travel, he was meant to be yours...

Best Greetings,

Ingrid, for the plight of the animals, right to the bone

[Karen]

Post #29 was removed from Timmy's thread and merged with this discussion.

No dog should have to be passed on from one temporary home, to home to home to home to home, and once again, to another temporary home - that's EMOTIONAL TORTURE for those poor animals - and I have firm experience of this. Please... If no home can be found, and he is heart-healthy enough to travel, he was meant to be yours...

Ingrid, I'm disappointed that you continue to equate fostering with "emotional torture". In doing so, you are denigrating all the good work that foster parents do.

More importantly, though, implying that foster parents are "emotionally torturing" animals, making comments like "he was meant to be yours" in adoption threads, or otherwise using guilt to pressure foster parents into adopting is offensive and will not be tolerated.

[red dog]

Post #29 was removed from Timmy's thread and merged with this discussion.



Ingrid, I'm disappointed that you continue to equate fostering with "emotional torture". In doing so, you are denigrating all the good work that foster parents do.

More importantly, though, implying that foster parents are "emotionally torturing" animals, making comments like "he was meant to be yours" in adoption threads, or otherwise using guilt to pressure foster parents into adopting is offensive and will not be tolerated.

Thanks.

[luvadog]

Please don't be harsh with Ingrid. She's been through a lot lately and she has lost 2 of her elderly forever pups just a short time ago, so it's a very emotional time for her. I hate to think of the time when I have to say good-bye to any of my babies as they cross the rainbow bridge. "See you later and I trust God will hold you in his care until we can be together again" is the best way.

She's really super passionate about all animals, and for sure that we can appreciate and love in her, no matter what our disagreements. She's been a great asset to this forum, to many rescues in just a short time and contributed her time and money when she didn't have it.

I once offered a suggestion that people could foster a dog or cat for the holidays and it was sorely rejected for the very same reason that Ingrid is presenting here. People said it was unfair for the dog to know a good home and then go back. To be bounced back and forth. I still think it's a great idea but maybe even Ingrid would disagree with me...and that's ok too.

My argument would be that if I took in a dog for Christmas for a month, that dog would be out of the cold and rain, I would give that dog his vaccines and have the health checks, do major grooming, probably visit back at the shelter regularly while providing monthly HW prevent, and possibly adopt it in the end if it were possible and it was left behind. That would be the ultimate goal. Maybe even bring a dog home for a week and back and forth to the shelter until we both adjusted. When I had suggested the sponsoring program, that's what I was talking about. Even sponsor just HWP and have someone like Annie who's not actually fostering to give that medicine that I could provide to the dog of my choice each time she goes to Asan. So many ways you can sponsor with a little team effort that works so well on here. I use World Vision as an example because for $30.00/mo you can feed a whole family and provide an education to one child. In the same manner and same price, you can provide HWP and vaccines to one dog each month that would save his life. In the end, he could be ready to be shipped to you if you choose. Watching one progress every week could seal a deal for some of them who are otherwise ignored.:)

Even the dogs at Asan I'm sure look forward to the walkers and helpers to come by and give a pat. You wouldn't refrain from doing that based on the assumption the dog would get spoiled and start to get depressed because you're not there all the time.

Fostering is temporary but the dog doesn't know the terminology. And I've asked this before: What happens if the fosterer leaves the dog behind in a shelter because there were no homes available and no one wanted him when they returned to their home country? He would obviously go back, right? How bad is that? Just as bad.

Don't take this wrong anything I've said. I'm not on anyone's "side" or against anything anyone has said, ...I have my own way. And as far as I know, Annie isn't even fostering.

I never in all my days thought I'd come home with 8!! Life would have been easier with 2 for sure...but I'm glad I did. And I bonded with several others I fostered and wish I could hear more updates. But I don't. It's also heart-wrenching for the humans as well.

Now if you want to take up enough donation money to send this dog to me I'll pick him up with Panda in a week or so and find him a great home. But I'm struggling to get Panda here. But I WILL! As long as he's neutered and teeth cleaned. Those are way too expensive here.:p

[Gingersmurf]

Well...then....adopt an English Bulldog.:D

ROFLMAO!! Thanks, luvadog. Now my two dogs have confirmation that I am indeed insane. "Mommy looks at that box and then laughs!" Please note that our mini doxie has been named Marlena Dietrich because my husband insisted. "She's German!"

Please don't be harsh with Ingrid. She's been through a lot lately and she has lost 2 of her elderly forever pups just a short time ago, so it's a very emotional time for her. I hate to think of the time when I have to say good-bye to any of my babies as they cross the rainbow bridge. "See you later and I trust God will hold you in his care until we can be together again" is the best way.

She's really super passionate about all animals, and for sure that we can appreciate and love in her, no matter what our disagreements. She's been a great asset to this forum, to many rescues in just a short time and contributed her time and money when she didn't have it.

I once offered a suggestion that people could foster a dog or cat for the holidays and it was sorely rejected for the very same reason that Ingrid is presenting here. People said it was unfair for the dog to know a good home and then go back. To be bounced back and forth. I still think it's a great idea but maybe even Ingrid would disagree with me...and that's ok too.

My argument would be that if I took in a dog for Christmas for a month, that dog would be out of the cold and rain, I would give that dog his vaccines and have the health checks, do major grooming, probably visit back at the shelter regularly while providing monthly HW prevent, and possibly adopt it in the end if it were possible and it was left behind. That would be the ultimate goal. Maybe even bring a dog home for a week and back and forth to the shelter until we both adjusted. When I had suggested the sponsoring program, that's what I was talking about. Even sponsor just HWP and have someone like Annie who's not actually fostering to give that medicine that I could provide to the dog of my choice each time she goes to Asan. So many ways you can sponsor with a little team effort that works so well on here. I use World Vision as an example because for $30.00/mo you can feed a whole family and provide an education to one child. In the same manner and same price, you can provide HWP and vaccines to one dog each month that would save his life. In the end, he could be ready to be shipped to you if you choose. Watching one progress every week could seal a deal for some of them who are otherwise ignored.:)

Even the dogs at Asan I'm sure look forward to the walkers and helpers to come by and give a pat. You wouldn't refrain from doing that based on the assumption the dog would get spoiled and start to get depressed because you're not there all the time.

Fostering is temporary but the dog doesn't know the terminology. And I've asked this before: What happens if the fosterer leaves the dog behind in a shelter because there were no homes available and no one wanted him when they returned to their home country? He would obviously go back, right? How bad is that? Just as bad.

Don't take this wrong anything I've said. I'm not on anyone's "side" or against anything anyone has said, ...I have my own way. And as far as I know, Annie isn't even fostering.

I never in all my days thought I'd come home with 8!! Life would have been easier with 2 for sure...but I'm glad I did. And I bonded with several others I fostered and wish I could hear more updates. But I don't. It's also heart-wrenching for the humans as well.

Now if you want to take up enough donation money to send this dog to me I'll pick him up with Panda in a week or so and find him a great home. But I'm struggling to get Panda here. But I WILL! As long as he's neutered and teeth cleaned. Those are way too expensive here.:p

Ingrid, I think luvadog worded this very nicely. I totally get your passion for the animals - we need to protect them because they can't protect themselves (in terms of shelter, medical care, etc).

But there is a huge difference between fostering a pet and abandoning a pet. I am sure that it's tough on animals to have multiple homes but the bottom line is that they DO have a home. It's a much better alternative when compared to euthanasia or living on the streets.

Your fight should be with irresponsible pet owners, those that don't spay or neuter their pets or those that just dump their pets outside when they are tired of them.

Honestly, given a choice, wouldn't you rather have a nice house to stay in for a week or a month at a time rather than to have to huddle in the gutter?

[elli120]

Please note that our mini doxie has been named Marlena Dietrich because my husband insisted. "She's German!"

Hahaha. my mini dachshund is named Diesel and naturally when choosing an EU country to spend 7 months in to by-pass quarantine in the UK I had to choose Germany.He's German after all! Diesel can search for his doggy ancestors and we are living about 200m from Dieselstrasse (Diesel street)!!!

[annie]

And as far as I know, Annie isn't even fostering.

I don't get that line...I've been fostering non-stop, both cats and dogs, for the past 4 years...

[luvadog]

I don't get that line...I've been fostering non-stop, both cats and dogs, for the past 4 years...

Oh, I meant just Pasta. I thought you were just helping to post him and make an occasional visit. But for SURE I know you have fostered many MANY!

I think cats stick to you like glu, like dogs stuck to me. Are you taking all 4 home with you? You're as bad as me!

[annie]

Oh, I meant just Pasta. I thought you were just helping to post him and make an occasional visit. But for SURE I know you have fostered many MANY!

I think cats stick to you like glu, like dogs stuck to me. Are you taking all 4 home with you? You're as bad as me!

OK, I see. Well, Timmy ("Pasta") is my actual foster this time. My 3 cats are coming with me. My foster cat Lea is most probably getting adopted very soon!